I agree with every word.

frankly I'm really worried about what's going on on the forum these days, suggestions to punish volunteers, suggestions to revoke membership.

chill people, remember why we are here, remember why we had to split.

cheers,
Alaa

---

http://www.manalaa.net "i`m feeling for the 2nd time like alice in wonderland reading el wafd"

not avatars tab3an.

cheers,
Alaa

---

http://www.manalaa.net "i`m feeling for the 2nd time like alice in wonderland reading el wafd"

And I said it that I don't care about the content, But the avatar is a property of me And his modifications are offensive to me.

Whatever, I'm really out of this LUG if this doesn't get solved.

Comeon eglug, You have a broken admin. team.

Now you can make fun of anyone and nothing'll happen to you

يا خساره

---

WWW: The place for organized randoms!
EGLUG Admin..
Arabeyes Core Member.
Free Software Foundation Associate Member.

silly member offended you and you are owed an apology. That is all you're owed, life doesn't owe you more than that. Asking for more is tantamount to indulgence in a victim complex; "the whole world is out to get me".

It's a little bit like little Shmoel (is that even a valid Jewish name? Looks like one...) using what Hitler did to justify why he should drop an A-bomb on $VILLAGE.

There, I've made a reference to Hitler (admittedly in an inelegant and roundabout flurry of logic and reference; kudos to me anyhow). According to Godwin's Law, this thread is now officially over and we can all go back to Mom's basement and compile kernels ad infinitum and go back to looking at hentai and anime and penguin pr0n.

-- Panem et *burp* circenses

What I want or what I get from life is not something that can be decided by you, And declaring this thread as closed or not is not a decision that you can take alone.

Come on, Twist the laws and the charter as you want.

---

WWW: The place for organized randoms!
EGLUG Admin..
Arabeyes Core Member.
Free Software Foundation Associate Member.

not avatar as license ,not avatar as content ,avatar content is not covered by the AUP(we agree on this b4)

1. but if someone took your avatar which is unique because simply it's your head and he then used it on his own profile and start post comments using your head (is it acceptable)
2. what if someone make fun of you avatar (your face which obviously part of your personalty )

do u support this as member/admin (yes | no ).

is this acceptable here??.

it's not covered by our young AUP ,which is made hopefully for people to respect each other ,

should we accepter any abuse when there' violation as we can not predict every stupid action that may happen on earth .

Conceptor : will you leave your project if you found a bug??, will I leave my home if i found cockroach .

Diaa Radwan

Now that Sameer has resigned we are going to need a new admin, and we'll also need someone to take over the IRC channel.

Can the rest of the admin team handle this?

-- Panem et *burp* circenses

First I'd like to say that very_silly_member and silly_member and QT4Dance are all the same person. I don't know why he keeps changing his nick but I refuse this waste of resources. It also creates confusion.

Now about the insult part I think Msameer deserves a public apology in a fashion similar to the insult. Judging silly_member to apologize without seeing that he does so is not enough, we have to enforce the judgement. Otherwise we kick him out.

I don't want to sound like a law maker or a law enforcer, but I believe for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. He did something wrong and he has to admit it and apologize, if he apologizes in a manner that satisfies MSameer then it's done. If he doesn't apologize then he has to be punished.

If we don't deal with this matter properly we will have this situation repeated over and over, and it could happen to anyone else. So we set an example of the response here.

I know I am kinda paranoid but I'd like to hint at the possibility of a conspiracy to sabotage our mission. We are close to achieving our goal in the fest ISA, and I believe there might be individuals who don't want that.

Silly please explain your self in a civilized manner.

Well, u take things very serously
u want apologize? Okay u get it. I am sorry
Avator was deteted

If u want to know reasons
I didn't ment to insult any one
I just wanted to make my Post to looks like his IRC related post
Thats why I took his Pic and comment
If u think I draw your pic in a funny way, thats would be because I don't draw well
and I can't take your real (C) pic


was a joke, no need to do all of that
sending me Pm would solve that more quitly I guess

Still u can ban me as u want, U know I used this account only twice since I made it

One to talk with Islam (pharon)
and second to make this post, and u (MSameer) know why I posted it (i guess)

I Never thought you will take it seriosly like that
May be because till now, I didn't understand u well

Sorry,Sorry,Sorry

If I insulted any one in the future.
and he want to revoke my membership
can simply send me private message
containing the following lines

dear silly member, 
I really hate your post link to the post here
U've insulted me enough, and I ask u kindly to leave eglug
optional line U can apologize to me instead

Note: The last line is really optional
sending me this 3 lines will not only revoke my membership quitly, hasseless but also will guranteen that I will not make new account in the near or far futhure

I hope what I have said will end this disscution

---

i think losing members is not our goal in this LUG. but i done something wrong and i already appolgized .. always keep in mind there is no community like to lose members. the point is when u do something wrong u should appologiz .. once i sent email 6 times to the eglug members and i have done public appoligize ;) so what do u think about offinding member in same community ? anyway we should foces in the fest ( at lest that what i`ll do )

peace

---

Live Free Or Die...

Still, If some one think I offened him enough.
He can send me the 3 lines above
his message will be secure and no body will know that he sent it to me I promise

and yes we should give our attention now to the fest

something else about the avator
the only common thing between my avator and your real face is the white hair
even the skin color I made it different
so in fact i didn't make fun of your look at all
In fact I made fun of your avator (with the sun glass)
I don't know if that makes my situation better or worse
but this is th truth, that u have to know

I'm not talking about the similarities between the 2 avatars, This is something we can discuss in a friendly face to face meeting while I invite you to a cup of cappuccino in a place yo like.

I don't care about the apology as much as I do care about understanding why.

IMHO Using my avatar is unethical, And it was creating confusion even with people close to me like Darkness_wolf.

But modifying it in this way is something that was insulting me personally and We can take it offline or keep it online as you wish.

I'm not really proud about how the admin. team is performing in such situations "and I consider myself one of them".

There's also someone who I'm not really proud of his comments on IRC regarding this matter.

here's also an xadmin simply saying things against what's stated in the charter and no one is either correcting him or proposing the charter modifications.

A final point, I decided to quit not to lose your efforts in the fest. I still think that it's better to harm myself in a way or another than to lose a volunteer.

Cheers,

---

WWW: The place for organized randoms!
EGLUG Admin..
Arabeyes Core Member.
Free Software Foundation Associate Member.

first lets not confuse each other, membership revocation is part of the policies and not the charter

now it says in the MCAP

---

Membership revocation

Only administrators can propose membership revocation.

Membership may only be revoked if a member:

• Persists in violation of the AUP
• Persists in unethical behavior not covered by the AUP

---

now it doesn't say membership should be revoked when blah blah happens, it says may only be revoked when blah blah happens.

this means it is an option to use membership revocation as a way to maintain harmony in the community, but it doesn't say we have to use it immediatly.

but thats not all, I don't agree silly_member was persistant in violating the AUP or persistant in unethical behavior, so I don't think these lines apply at all, notice that this is why we have a vote system because the criterea is subjective.

you are angry because we are discussing the issue, it seems the natural thing to do to disucss things first, and not to make any decisions until everyone involved get to voice their opinion.

finally I think it is in very poor taste to use an admin privilege to resolve an issue that involves you, IMO you should have asked another admin to propose handle it, the moment you enter a conflict you should forget you are an admin.

finally instead of throwing vague words like

here's also an xadmin simply saying things against what's stated in the charter and no one is either correcting him or proposing the charter modifications.

it would be more constructive to actually quote what was said and say who was involved.

cheers,
Alaa

---

http://www.manalaa.net "i`m feeling for the 2nd time like alice in wonderland reading el wafd"

1. I didn't use it immediatly, I asked him to change the avatar and he did something worse.
2. The mcap didn't say that we need to vote before asking to revoke or not. So your thought as an individual doesn't count as long as all the rest are not sharing it with you.
3. You can't discuss things when the other part is ignoring it or doing something worse.
4. I didn't use my admin rights and placed my 9 votes, This is what I understand. But sorry, relying on you for example to take action won't result in anything before days as you are NOYT that free and the rest of the team have their own jobs.

>> here's also an xadmin simply saying things against what's stated in the charter and no ?

>> one is either correcting him or proposing the charter modifications.

Go read youssef's comment.

---

WWW: The place for organized randoms!
EGLUG Admin..
Arabeyes Core Member.
Free Software Foundation Associate Member.

>I didn't use it immediatly, I asked him to change the avatar and he did something worse.

thats the thing, maybe he doesn't see it as something worse? personally I can't see what is making you angry to begin with, I don't see how the avatar is insulting

>The mcap didn't say that we need to vote before asking to revoke or not. So your thought as an individual doesn't count as long as all the rest are not sharing it with you.

huh what are you talking about? did I say we have to vote before asking to revoke? I said we have to vote on the decisions itself, and there is no such thing as an thought that doesn't count, all opinions are important.

> You can't discuss things when the other part is ignoring it or doing something worse.

ignoring you? this whole thing has been going on for what? 24 hours? thats not enough time for you to say he is ignoring you, as for doing worse as I said it isn't that clear to everyone.

he was doing a parody, it offended you, he is supposed to apologise but I can't see why you assume he did it just to offend you.

> 4. I didn't use my admin rights and placed my 9 votes, This is what I understand. But sorry, relying on you for example to take action won't result in anything before days as you are NOYT that free and the rest of the team have their own jobs.

true and thats very comendable, sorry for not thanking you for it.

but what I meant was proposing the membership revocation ala

>Only administrators can propose membership revocation.

I would have just complained about the behavior on the forum and let others think about how to handle it, but as I said it's in your rights to do what you did, I just consider it in poor taste and since you did decline to use your 9 ballots that actually balances it, no probs here.

oh ex-admin got it, yeah I seem to remember this line was actually invented by youssef right?

I always thought the policies where not disscussed properly. and yeah I agree it is weird that youssef would say that.

the reason why I ignored this line is becuase I'll ignore anyone who says I'm not playing with you unless. I ignore it when it comes from you and ignore it when it comes from youssef.

cheers,
Alaa

---

http://www.manalaa.net "i`m feeling for the 2nd time like alice in wonderland reading el wafd"

I said "as long as all the rest are not sharing it with you." which means that you can't enforce your opinion if the rest are not sharing it with you.

Whatever, Next time it'll be a discussion.

And yes, I'm ignoring you unless meeso invites me to 7orreia ;-)

---

WWW: The place for organized randoms!
EGLUG Admin..
Arabeyes Core Member.
Free Software Foundation Associate Member.

Calm down guys,
Every thing is cool
I will set my own rules to be applied to my self (only)

1- in case I did something worse then u should know i didn't mean it
Just send me PM and every thing will be find

2- in case I did I mistake that need public apologize (apologize to some one in a forum topic) Just ask for it in the same topic

3- in case I did something that no apologizes/actions can fix it send me the 3 lines

MSameer said that he prefer to hurt him self than to lose volunteer
Thats would correct when u r talking about acitve member
But I don't think I made something good worth that u hurt your self for me

so please, If u have to choose between hurting your self and keeping me
Please don't hurt your self, Cause this is the most thing I hate in my life
leaving eglug will not hurt me much and it will not hurt eglug at all!

No body please should do sacrifice for me

Now what?
I removed the avator
I can't edit my comm (edit link not exist)
I apologized

Now if MSameer can accept my apologize (and I think he did)
then every thing is cool
and if he didn't then he can use my own rules to speed things up and avoid useless discussion (in my opinion)

It is his choise now, no need for poll, no need for disscusions
this topic should be closed now and care more about the next fest

---

I'll bite.

here's also an xadmin simply saying things against what's stated in the charter and no one is either correcting him or proposing the charter modifications.

The charter allows for membership revocation. If you recall who wrote the charter (me), then you'll understand that there is a slight possibility that I might actually remember what I wrote. Based on this, we have a question: how can someone who wrote something into a charter disagree with it so strongly? Consider the possibility that I understand that the community requires this facility of revocation and that, despite the fact that I acknowledge this, I disapprove. In that case, the only logical conclusion is that I may have written the charter with the community in mind rather than my own narrow opinions. Based on this logic, what would happen is, if you revoked the guy's membership I'd either push for an immeidate vote on repealing this section of the charter or I'd jump ship. I don't see either happening at this point in time, quite frankly.

We've looked at me, now let's have a look at you. According to the charter, the member can get booted if he or she persists in the behavior. As everyone can see, it looks like I was the only person who actually knew anything when I said that he probably didn't mean to offend; he said so many times in posts on this thread. So, I think it is quite clear that he did not persist. As a consequence, your immediate call for membership revocation is uncalled for and violates the charter. You have not made any sort of case for persistence because there was none.

Now we've looked at me and you, let's have a look at poor Mr. Silly member. He's new to the LUG, doesn't yet understand how we work, how we think, and how we play. He makes a playful jab at Sameer to his great misfortune and gets this thread as a result. I'm sorry you had to go through this silly member.

Now for the charter. I still feel it is wrong for revocation to be an option; a community should be stronger than its trolls. One day, however, we may have trolls stronger than the admins and mods; that is what I wanted to guard against by including provision in the charter for membership revocation. Quite frankly, it makes me sick to see such a petty dispute escalated to this level.

Get a grip.

On a personal level as someone who started this LUG, I apologise to silly member for this ridiculous farce. This isn't what I expected.

-- Panem et *burp* circenses

The charter allows for membership revocation. If you recall who wrote the charter (me), then you'll understand that there is a slight possibility that I might actually remember what I wrote. Based on this, we have a question: how can someone who wrote something into a charter disagree with it so strongly? Consider the possibility that I understand that the community requires this facility of revocation and that, despite the fact that I acknowledge this, I disapprove. In that case, the only logical conclusion is that I may have written the charter with the community in mind rather than my own narrow opinions. Based on this logic, what would happen is, if you revoked the guy's membership I'd either push for an immeidate vote on repealing this section of the charter or I'd jump ship. I don't see either happening at this point in time, quite frankly.

Good, If you have an opinion against the charter then you can propose your modifications. Doing anything else is simply a waste of time, Of your time and of our time.

We've looked at me, now let's have a look at you. According to the charter, the member can get booted if he or she persists in the behavior. As everyone can see, it looks like I was the only person who actually knew anything when I said that he probably didn't mean to offend; he said so many times in posts on this thread. So, I think it is quite clear that he did not persist. As a consequence, your immediate call for membership revocation is uncalled for and violates the charter. You have not made any sort of case for persistence because there was none.

He meant to be offensive and he insisted.

Why not say that he was afraid to lose his member ship ? How can you tell ?

And I gave the reasons for my call, Either you like them personally or not is not the matter here if ll other people approve them.

And before you say he didn't instst, You must 1st define what's meant by "insist".

Now we've looked at me and you, let's have a look at poor Mr. Silly member. He's new to the LUG, doesn't yet understand how we work, how we think, and how we play. He makes a playful jab at Sameer to his great misfortune and gets this thread as a result. I'm sorry you had to go through this silly member. He's not new. And he's supposed to read the harter. If he didn't read it then this is his problem not my problem.

Now for the charter. I still feel it is wrong for revocation to be an option; a community should be stronger than its trolls. One day, however, we may have trolls stronger than the admins and mods; that is what I wanted to guard against by including provision in the charter for membership revocation. Quite frankly, it makes me sick to see such a petty dispute escalated to this level. Go propose what you want, I'l vote against your modifications, I'm not convnced.

The community has to be stronger than the trolls but sometimes you need to take an action. I've passed by such an example.

Get a grip. If this is for me, Then get one for yourself.

---

WWW: The place for organized randoms!
EGLUG Admin..
Arabeyes Core Member.
Free Software Foundation Associate Member.

Good, If you have an opinion against the charter then you can propose your modifications. Doing anything else is simply a waste of time, Of your time and of our time.

I have opinions against the charter; if I know that the charter is better without my opinions then I do not propose them. I do not look to you to know when I am wasting my own time, and I think you are not in a position to judge how everyone else's time is optimally spent. Being admin does not entitle you to use the word "we" like that; admin is a technical position, you do not get the privilege of speaking for everyone else.

In my opinion, it is a greater waste of time to decide 4 times a month that you're gonna leave and then not do anything about it.

He meant to be offensive and he insisted.

He apologised. You have no right to judge people's intentions. Being admin does not give you this right. The only thing you deserve is an apology and you got that. If you didn't get that things would have been different. Asking for more is indulgence in a victim complex.

Why not say that he was afraid to lose his member ship ? How can you tell ?

Since you can't tell what a person's intentions are, then if someone apologises one accepts this. Shall we now ask the poor fellow to prove how sorry he is? What would make you feel better, cash compensation for mental anguish? A written signed apology registered in the Shahr 3eqari? Where do you draw the line? The rest of humanity accepts apologies without wasting time and moves on.

Go propose what you want, I'l vote against your modifications, I'm not convnced.

Like I said before in this post and the previous one, I do not propose to change anything. I'm afraid it's going to be something of a challenge for you to vote against whatever I propose when what I propose is nothing.

The community has to be stronger than the trolls but sometimes you need to take an action. I've passed by such an example.

I don't think you read my post very well, because that was my point also. Unfortunately, you haven't passed by such an example; silly member is not a troll. Trolls don't apologise. He's just a guy who made an error in judgment thinking something would be funny and it turned out not to be.

He doesn't deserve to be subjected to a witch hunt so you can feel righteous.

Get a grip. If this is for me, Then get one for yourself.

I'm not the one resigning every month.

-- Panem et *burp* circenses

I do not look to you to know when I am wasting my own time, I didn't say that you are wasting your own time, I don't even care about your time or how you spend it. and I think you are not in a position to judge how everyone else's time is optimally spent. Being admin does not entitle you to use the word "we" like that; admin is a technical position, you do not get the privilege of speaking for everyone else. Wasting more than a day in such a discussion if it's not being counted as wasting the time of the whole community in this thread "i guess the fest wiki is almost dead" can be counted as wasting the time of a volunteer and one of the fest organizers "which is me" by another member "which is you".

In my opinion, it is a greater waste of time to decide 4 times a month that you're gonna leave and then not do anything about it. This is a waste of my time and you are not in a position to judge me, No one can judge me on how I waste my time.

FYI: You also said that you are not with us if we start revoking memberships, And I said that I'm leaving if this doesn't get solved.

I do not propose to change anything. I'm afraid it's going to be something of a challenge for you to vote against whatever I propose when what I propose is nothing. I vote with or against anything depending on whether I think it's right or wrong. It's simple, Go propose it or stop spreading FUD.

And yes, I passed by a troll experience, It wasn't silly member, Don't assume things. And I know that sometimes you need to revoke memberships.

Me resigning every month or even every day is not your business, Where was that stated before ?

---

WWW: The place for organized randoms!
EGLUG Admin..
Arabeyes Core Member.
Free Software Foundation Associate Member.