i am really confued between those 3 things , i want to see what is the difference between computer science and computer engineering ,
i will not chose computer science anyway because i am in (23dadi handest el cahera)
but i want to know the difference only.
and i really need to know which is better( if i love computers and want to learn about them ),, will it be computer engineering or communications engineering .
some says that i can study communications and take some CERTS , and that will make me better than studying computer eng.,
plz help me i am really confused i want to put a target infront of me to follow ...
here is the site of Engineeing http://www.eng.cu.edu.eg/facts/en/departments.htm
and here is the courses of computer engineering department
http://services.eng.cu.edu.eg/Course/5/en/25.htm
plz reply

If you wanna learn more about computers then computer engineering is your choice. Communications students learn a little about computer. They focus on other things.That's an advice from a will-be communications engineer ISA.

Another thing
Communication engineering is such a sophisticated and respectable field of study that it'll be a waste of time to study anything beside it. Its real science. You can study commerce and computer science at the same time, but not communications and computers. Its like studying medicine and commerce. It would be insulting to medicine. Although communication engineering and computer science are related unlike medicine and commerce.

At last
Communication Engineers are the best :)

u should exclude comp. sci. from the options since u r already in in prep year so u have 2 options only either comp. eng. or comm.

usually most ppl think that computer only mean PCs but the computer word is much larger than this and this what comp. eng. goes into

there is huge world of computers in the industry [factories , robots , machines ..etc ]

it will be kinda mix between compter sci. + some engineering topics

while comm. deal alot of comm. systems - wade7 men el esm :) - like radios , TVs , mobile..etc

and these things depend more on the electronic engineering side than computer knowledge
even when they r into computer related stuff they go deeper to the electronix level while in computer eng. they stop at the logical level


i believe some of the computer engineers here can tell us more

i thank you very much for your reply , i would like more replies because that will help me in my life :)

you know a similar question has been bothering me lately, which is better pediatrics or dentistry or maybe some other field of medicine.
and what about mathematics, which is better pure math or applied math.
not to mention the whole engineering thing, I mean there is civil engineering, mechanical engineering and all sorts of engineering certainly one of them is better than the others right??

serieously though this is the weirdest question I've ever seen on Linux-Egypt and thats saying somehting.

the difference between comp sci and comp eng I suppose would be akin to the difference between ...... surprise surprise "SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

and if you're wondering about the practical differences of which department is better in our lovely engineering faculties forget it they are all the same a huge wast of time and effort.

> Communication engineering is such a sophisticated and respectable field
> of study that it'll be a waste of time to study anything beside it. Its real
> science.

you know I agree communication eng. is soooo sophisticated it doesn;t compare to comp sci or comp eng which we all know are such unsophisticated fields, I mean look at how simple and easy computer systems and the mathematical ideas behind them are, its all so simple and (gasp) unsophisticated it should be left to the birds man

and why study anything but communication engineering I mean we don't exactly need operating systems or formal language theory or compilers and languages do we?? its all communication baby its all about communication the rest is just rubbish.

and man talk about respectable I mean communication is respectable specially when compared with these two fields how unrespectable can you get everyone knows that only clowns and loose women do comp eng as for comp sci don't get me started have you seen how people like Donald E Knuth and Edsger Dijkstra look like, and comp sci is all about hackers you know these filthy unshaved bastards who practically invented the internet and Unix.

I prefered it when Linux-Egypt was boring and had all these modem questions, I think someone should start a motorolla modem thread to keep us in focus.

AAAAAAGGGGHHHHHH LART LART LART LART

So so so so
That's what we gain, Grrr!
What's the difference between your right eye and your left leg ?

No more sm56 ? No more How to install arabic fonts ? No more how do i mount winblowz partitions ?

Salamo 3alaikom,

I think this thread should be moved to the General chat thread.

PS: Ya3ni law elnas sa2lom fi mawade3 mokarara nez3al we law sa2lom elnassiha nez3al, dahna we7sheen awi. :).

Hope you did benefit from this thread SeAwInDe.

Salam.

I saw lots of discussions on the net
arguing that the name "computer science"
is misleading!

And In a way, I agree, those CS students they take physics courses :rolleyes:

I believe a better name could be
"Software development"
SD

I don't deny, the obvious, science, in software development, but, for most people science means
physics, chemistry, geology !!!

The study and observations of how life was created...
Kinda weird to say, but how would God want us to create software?

Natural science is clear, E=MC^2 ,
God created it that way

But there is no formula for software creation!
So the science there is not obvious

We can argue that the best UI include lots of science, for example, which colors match wihich, which colors humans prefer on screen.

In real life, we use white paper and blue pens
In computers it's white background and black font!

Why do we use did we use blue ink in school?
yet most books and even computers, are white paper, black fonts?

Anyway, software development, is interesting
you are telling THE machine what to do?
And not by creating an electric circuit, but by writing!!

What can the machine, a machine do ?
And what it can't?
What is the limits?
There is a lot of philosophical debates here, you don't have to study physics to answer that.

Software creation, is actually ....

communication engineering want to send messages, bigger , faster, easier !
communication, got a big push because of mobile companies we keda, they usually find good jobs because of that..

computer engineers, main thing is microprocessors, computers engineers are very very close the computer science students
the difference is not that obvious, and the fields of work, isnt also !!!!
computer engineers are closer to the machine, and even thought as i said creating microprocessors is their SWEET thing to do, an basic job for computer engineers is to ... i dont know to say it, mmm... make sure code write by a programmers, works efficiently on the machine !!!

so we can say, a CS student worry about creating complex software,
a computer engineer, regardless of what the code do, or how it was built, he want to make sure this code works efficiently on the machine

Anyway, my opinion , it mainly based on two computer engineer student i talked with,
i could be wrong ..... but it sound sane what they told me !!!!

Anyway, a usually ignored fact is you wont learn at university, as most ppl dont

you will pass the exams and graduate and find out that u dont know much!

you will remember few courses names but u wont remember what it taught u
and if u do, u wont know how is that useful?

the only way u will learn if u have a real interest in a topic u read about, and love to read about

fa choose wut u love, and what u want to know
and it's not too late to change majors, or change college, assuming this is technically possible!

not really much i wish i have more replies , i doesn`t matter if this thread is in GENERAL or whatever
thanx people for ur help

alaa:
About those filthy unshaved bastards
Ken Thompson studied electrical engineering.
Dennis Ritchie studied physics and applied mathematics.
Those guys practically invented Unix and C.
I thought they were law students :) :)

By the way, Dennis thought he wasn't smart enough to be a physicist although we all know how smart the guy is.

Some sciences just emerge from others.

And yes, compared to microwave thoery, information theory should be left to birds. LOOL
Just because you know what a pn junction is then you know how
"shophisticated" electronics and communication engineering is.

Anyway, why all this fuss. I just adviced the guy that he won't have enough time to read and learn about computer sci which he love while studying comm.

>And In a way, I agree, those CS students they take physics courses :
> rolleyes:

it just happens that all students who study any form or MATHEMATICAL science be it applied or pure study physiscs and since Computer Science is generaly preceived to be a mathematical science CS students study some physics and mechanics (I'm not sure about this but I think all technical and scientific departments in any reasonable univ teach some physics so no surprise here).

>I believe a better name could be
>"Software development"

you know computer science is not just about software development, software development is just a way to practice that science and build useful things out of it, CS is about algorythms computation formal language and automata etc etc etc etc
and then of course you study some applied stuff that relates to networking, operating systems, compilers etc etc but thats just normal, just because there is an pure abstract model for electricity doesn't mean that physics students don't get to learn about capacitors and circuits and all that stuff right. there is even a theory for stuff like that and there are theories for stuff like OS (its mainly in the low level details of memory management and file systems and stuff like that.)


>I don't deny, the obvious, science, in software development, but, for most
>people science means
>physics, chemistry, geology !!!
if most people don't count mathematics as science then most people have an IMO skewed definition of what is science fortunatly those most people don't include anyone who is in charge of any higher educational institute.

>The study and observations of how life was created...
>Kinda weird to say, but how would God want us to create software?

dunno if mathematical sciences could be classified under the study and observation of how life was created thats a very very phylosophical question but some things in mathematics are very far removed from the basic physical world (or as you put it what god created) that I doubt it'll fit.

take number theory or logic for instance.
hell the whole algebra thing is just one big human creation IMO.
you see algebra logic and number theory all share one point they are soooooooo useful for the other more physical sciences so the scientific community on the whole decided that the study of the very language and tools of science is in itself a science and CS fits very neatly here as part of the other mathematical sciences.

>But there is no formula for software creation!
>So the science there is not obvious

but there is. there is a formula for each and every algorithm there is a formula for how optimal and correct this algorithm or even this lowly real life implementation of the algorithm is.

>We can argue that the best UI include lots of science, for example, which
>colors match wihich, which colors humans prefer on screen.

you know I don't think I've ever seen a computer scientist argue about UI, thats engineerig or even art (or most probably snake oil but thats anohter story).

>Anyway, software development, is interesting
>you are telling THE machine what to do?
>And not by creating an electric circuit, but by writing!!
and to actualy be sure what will happen uncder all posible circumstances and to know exactly what you should tell your machine and how to represent that you need lots of science LOOOOAAAADDDS of science.

>What can the machine, a machine do ?
>And what it can't?
>What is the limits?
>There is a lot of philosophical debates here, you don't have to study
>physics to answer that.
I don't see how this is phylosophical this looks to me like a mathematical or a physical question.
just like you can tell by physics what the limit of any given engine and what the limit of any hypothetical engine (you can't get more than speed light at least until string theory becomes the norm).
and FYI that very question has been asked an answered before.
all computers (except maybe for quantum computers) are limited by the capabilities of a TURING MACHINE (what will they come up with next).
and the best thing is?? Alan Turing came to that conclusion a couple of years before any computers where built (when was the enigma built?).

so there you have it, the best example for how scientific computer science could be (no wonder he is considered the father of CS).

and BTW I was being sarcastic in my first two posts, I know I'm a bad joker but is it realy that hard to know when I'm joking and when I'm not??

i meant it doesnt matter for me if u want to transfer it anywhere , i am really sorry if i made the thread in that section but really i didnt meant it

SeAwInDe: fahem 7aga ?:D

again and again

plz take it easy ya gama3a and note who r ur audince

ya3ny our brother in prep year and he just asked so if we can spot some more light for him not to argue about if it should be CS or SD !

bas nase7a roo7 zeyara le kol kesm keda we shof beya7`do eh we 7awel te7dar mo7adrat ma3a sana talta we rab3a we es2al el mo3edeen 3an el far2 been el kesmen homa dol hayedok el 7`olasa :)

This is a little bit like comparing apples to oranges. And we ALL KNOW that oranges suck and apples are the dominant species of fruit, and are destined for world domination. At least, I know this.

No, but really, this thread wouldn't have erupted into the flamewar it is becoming if the original poster had specified what exactly he means with `better'.

Does `better' mean that he can get a better job with such a degree?(10% likely) Or a better PAYING job?(90% likely) Or maybe, his definition of better means that having such a degree will lead him ultimately to an elevated state of spiritual consciousness? (0% likely)

Serious, Mr, Original Poster, define `better' and you'll get more constructive replies.

i want to see what is the difference between computer science and computer engineering ,

this comes b4 the word "better"

and what did he mean by better is just between the backets

i really need to know which is better( if i love computers and want to learn about them )

Very smart.

What I'm saying, and I say this because I've seen quite a lot, is to work out what your priorities are SPECIFICALLY.

'I like computers' doesn't cut it; you can major in music and spend all your time in computers. I'm a financial management graduate, and I still learned more about computers during university than any MIS student.

When I ask for a better definition of 'better' I'm not looking for an answer like 'umm I like computers'. An answer like that gets you nowhere.

That's the equivalent of asking someone what their objectives in their professional life are, and being answered: "My objectives? My professional objective is to get a good job."

i.e. a technically accurate but practically useless answer.

may be it gets you nowhere since you don`t know the look through his eyes , but for me it is fair enough !

meen MIS de bel monasba ??

te2rab 7aga le ASU aw CUFE ?:p

Originally posted by NewComer
Another thing
Communication engineering is such a sophisticated and respectable field of study that it'll be a waste of time to study anything beside it. Its real science. You can study commerce and computer science at the same time, but not communications and computers. Its like studying medicine and commerce. It would be insulting to medicine. Although communication engineering and computer science are related unlike medicine and commerce.

At last
Communication Engineers are the best :)

How did you manage to scribble this post?

You can study anything you want with anything else you want. This is no rule, it just depends on the number of digits in your IQ. And its really ignorant to make sweeping generalizations like "communication engineers are the best". This is so typical of mainstream egyptian thinking and it truely angers me to no end.

Its also truely ignorant not to notice a joke from serious talk specially when you find an emoticon like this :)

Mainstream Egyptians think that they are cleverer than the mainstream egyptians.

Such an attidude takes us nowhere.

Just don't get angry to no ends.

<I>Mainstream Egyptians think that they are cleverer than the mainstream egyptians.</I>

Actually, not to be pedantic, but:

Mainstream egyptians == mainstream egyptians

and therefore,

clever(Mainstream Egyptians) == clever(mainstream egyptians)

Sorry.

Originally posted by MadFarmAnimalz
Very smart.

What I'm saying, and I say this because I've seen quite a lot, is to work out what your priorities are SPECIFICALLY.

'I like computers' doesn't cut it; you can major in music and spend all your time in computers. I'm a financial management graduate, and I still learned more about computers during university than any MIS student.
i.e. a technically accurate but practically useless answer.
when i mean love computers it doesnt mean chatting or just going to play games , by all ways i have meant the word that i said in all direction
love computer ===want to be a programmer , think logically, know everything about it
and thank u all for ur help if someone have more things to say plz post

loving computers does not automaticaly mean programming, it could be the hardware or the network or even the chatting and the games.

however if its programming you want to do then stick to comp sci or comp eng, communication is not about programming at all.

although note that programming in itself is a very easy to learn art (its quite hard to master though) so you could pick up another department just to learn about different things and broaden your horizon and at the same time teach yourself programming (you'll have to teach it to yourself anyway).

thats why many succesful hackers where originaly physics students, physics teaches you about constructing models and and understanding complex systems, very useful when it comes to programming.

cheers,
Alaa

Originally posted by ^3aFrEt^
meen MIS de bel monasba ??

MIS -> Management information systems
(systems is plural)
Unlike popular belief, MIS is not just about computers.
They won't teach you to be a lab monkeys in MIS.

I do admit the major have issues

The only way I see MIS as a feasible course of study is as a graduate level.

Even thought MIS problems are hardly ever computer problems!

MIS people who knows too little about computers are useless.
But the problem isn't really that bad, if an MIS student knows at least one delvelopment tool, or programming language really well he can manage, but of course if you only know one language you are not GOOD, but useful

MIS student edge is that they are usually database people and most other CS students tend to know less about databases then MIS people.

MIS student see systems as DATA that require PROCESSES.

CS students see systems as PROCESSES that needs data.

Guess why I call my self systems?

What is kinda funny and also sad in the same time , is that
MIS people tend to see CS people as dumb labor
And
CS people tend to see MIS people as ignorant snobs.

Originally posted by alaa
although note that programming in itself is a very easy to learn art (its quite hard to master though)


Or it's the opposite, it's hard to find good books to learn, which makes it hard to learn, and it's usually hard to master for the people who didnt find good books and had to learn with trial and error, which makes em think that it's only hard to master, when it's really that they didnt learn it in the first place!

Many programmers dont believe in education, and they are wrong of course, they dont believe in education because they want so much for programming to be an "art" thing
And of course no one can teach you how to do art
the loss is theirs anyway

Programming is hard to learn, because the most programming books are poorely written by irresponsible writers

Go to amazon, search for the best of the best books and you will master programming just fine!

"You can waste lots of time tweaking HTML "--Guido Van Rossum

Originally posted by alaa

thats why many succesful hackers where originaly physics students, physics teaches you about constructing models and and understanding complex systems, very useful when it comes to programming.


what is your definition of hacker if it is like that http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html lets complete..
.So if i want to know everything in and about computers , will that narrow my horizon , and what does physics deals with programming .
programming is about logic and discrete math , of course physics and other thing but not every physician will be a programmer .
and also it doesnt mean that ,Dennis M. Ritchie(physician)
and Kenneth Thompson(elecrical engineer) who developed UNIX and the B lang and upgraded it to C , that every other one will be like them ,i mean (IT IS NOT A RULE)

thats all. at last i mean
if i went to Computer engineering ,
will the communication engineers be better than me in everything if they took courses and so , and if they r going to be better than me ,so why have openned the computer department .
2na 3ref 2ni zah2tokom laken 2sta7meloni
thanx a lot for u all

>what is your definition of hacker if it is like that http://catb.
>org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html lets complete..

its a GNU/Linux forum what do you think my definition of hacker would be??

>.So if i want to know everything in and about computers , will that narrow
>my horizon , and what does physics deals with programming .

nope I did not say that, please this is getting to be annoying, I never said that.
I specificaly said that if you're only interested in programming it might be worthwhile to study something else that you'll enjoy.
if however you want to learn as much as posible about all aspects of computers and computing (you can't learn it all), then of course not you'd better be more focused on something computer related.

and no it will not narrow your horizon, I don't see how it is possible to narrow your horizon, the expression widen your horizon usually means to learn about new things/ideas/opinions that are differ from what you usually do.
so one widens his horizon by reading about other relgions and philosophies even if one is very strongly secure in his current beliefs.
so since one cannot really unlearn things and unlive experiences it is not possible to narrow your horizon (ba3d el shar 3aleik).

AND I NEVER SAID PHYSICS HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH PROGRAMMING, let me quote what I said and see if it makes sense
> thats why many succesful hackers where originaly physics students,
> physics teaches you about constructing models and and understanding
> complex systems, very useful when it comes to programming.

did I say there is a relationship?? nooooo, I only observed that many hackers come from a physics background and I offered the opinion that some of the skills you learn when studying physics (which was only an example anyway, you could just as well study zera3a for all I care) are useful to you as a programmer.
there is nothing very strange about that you know, many people would claim that because they played team sports limke football in their youth they ended up being more able to work with teams and workgroups in their careers, and I doubt any of them has a football related career, stuff like that happens you know.

>programming is about logic and discrete math , of course physics and
>other thing but not every physician will be a programmer .
no they'll probably end up opening a clinic :-)

seriously though since when did they change the meaning of the word many??

as you'll surely recall I only said many (as in "many") hackers studied physics, I never said most hackers, or most physics students, I didn't even say a large percentage I just said many, if I can come up with 20 reasonably good hackers who fit the criterea this would be considered many (right/wrong?)

>thats all. at last i mean
>if i went to Computer engineering ,
>will the communication engineers be better than me in everything if they
>took courses and so.

you know we've been trying to make a few points and you don't seem to get them at all, so let me repeat them.

1- they are totaly different fields of study with many overlapping courses so its not like you're comparing alternatives here.
2- better is completley meaningless without a context, what do you mean by better (if its just I love computers as in I love programming then its already been answered).
3- computer science and computer engineering involves some very abstract and somewhat complex stuff that you'll never find in courses (this includes ,mathematical courses like formal language theory and applied ones like operating system design).
4- what is going to decide who is better is most probably not going to be which department or which courses but which student, meaning that even if you're in MIT you'll need to teach yourself lots of stuff, and since you're not in MIT you'll need to teach yourself nearly all of it, doesn't matter which dept. you go to, and courses are not going to help much.
5- researching the issue yourself by actualy chatting with a couple of profs/grad students and seeing what they teach in each dept. then googleing around for info on any subjects you're not familiar with is bound to be much more useful than discussing it with us.

> and if they r going to be better than me ,so why
> have openned the computer department .
most probably becuase the ones who opened that department don't share this opinon, you see better is not a fact, even GNU/Linux being better than Window$ is sadly not a fact but an opinion and opinions are bound to differ, so while you'll get those who'll tell you that com eng is the thing and anything else is just a farce others will tell you the opposite.
and it'll cost us nothing, you're the only one who stands to lose or profit from this decision and you should make it based on your opinion not someone else's

cheers,
Alaa

> Or it's the opposite, it's hard to find good books to learn, which makes it
> hard to learn, and it's usually hard to master for the people who didnt

I still think its trivial to learn the basics of programming, I spent some time teaching programming to children and it was sooo smooth.
but I agree it is very hard to find good books, most books are just language books, they tell you about the syntax (and make lots of mistakes in the way).

>find good books and had to learn with trial and error, which makes em
>think that it's only hard to master, when it's really that they didnt learn it
>in the first place!
whats wrong with trial and error?? I'd say it is imposible to learn programming (if anything) without trial and error, the only problem is lack of guidance how do I know when an error is an error and when it isn't (the fact that it works isn't good enough in most cases, DOS did work after all :-)


>Many programmers dont believe in education.
I don't think this is that widespread among Free Software programmers (but it is definatly widespread among the users :-)

>course, they dont believe in education because they want so much for
>programming to be an "art" thing
programming has many aspects, its part science with part engineering with some art and tradition all mixed together.
you can program in science only, thats basicaly what happens when you program prove every step but then again your program is never run isolated (Knuth once sent a program to a friend with a note that said "Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it") hence the need for engineering.
the art part is harder to put into an argument but thats what hacking is about.
just think of it this way, science and engineering have no ideology but art does, and since computer code is the law of the land in cyberspace its important to have art so that we can have ideology.
let me give an example the internet was built as an open extendible network for many reason not all of them are technical, it was a decision made by the first programmers thats ideology in the code and to me this is art.

>And of course no one can teach you how to do art
>the loss is theirs anyway
but observing, studying and discussing the works of other artists helps, being in contact with many artists and understanding the history/heritage of the art helps, and mastering the tools and understanding the theory also helps.

thats why I think it is hard to master programming, you have to understand the different parts, and you have to always consider its history, you have to communicate alot and practice alot, you have to expose yourself to different techniques, paradigms and styles this is not easy stuff and it takes lots of time.

>Programming is hard to learn, because the most programming books are
>poorely written by irresponsible writers
this has nothing to do with programming, if you get your hands on a good book and maybe have someone to mentor you doesn't it become easy to learn??

>Go to amazon, search for the best of the best books and you will master
>programming just fine!
I doubt it I'm sure many poor souls did like me and spent a fortune on very good books yet are still to master it (I may be stupid of course but I doubt it)

cheers,
Alaa

QUOTE]Originally posted by alaa
>you know we've been trying to make a few points and you don't seem to get them at all, so let me repeat them.

[/QUOTE]
i have been trying to make a few points but i have got many of them ,but i am trying to make sure i got them in the good unhesitated way ,
okay at last i will go to COMPUTER ENGINEERING
insha2allah , i think i can be good there and i can make something in that department and also i thank u all for ur help and i want to be clear that i got what i want from that thread to help me to make my decision after all thank all of u again i apperieciate ur help

BEST WISHES FOR ALL,
Ahmed el gindy;)

physicians and physicists are totally different things :)

MadFarmAnimalz:
What I didn't say, "mainstream egyptians are cleverer than mainstream egyptians".
I said , "mainstream egyptians think they are cleverer than mainstream egyptians".

Supposed to be a recursive thing. :)

BTW, I like your signature very much. Its absolutely funny.

Dont just take things the way u wanna :

angoranimi was pointing that , [elta3asob] is something we see everywhere in egypt, and its true , i do see people calling each other the dirtiest and lowest sh*t just because those love the red and those adore the white , read: ahly and zamalek , and people dissing others for such things ,mobinil vs vofdafone ,cairo ppl and alex ppl , .....


and newcomer stated a fact that communication engineers are the best anyway .
( and btw i am one , here's a tip ,they do ;) , j/k )

So mainsteam egyptians got flaws , we can comment it ,as long as it serves the subject .

and please dont reply to this(it'll be more waste of bytes) .
good day

watch for my upcoming BIG post on the subject .

If you think this is too much to read , then you;re about to loose someone else's experience about it .

and please people , dont be distorted by those who fire grenade replies to get us away from main subject , the guy wanted to know the difference, here is my side of the story .

the same with Communication goes with many fields ,there are too many different jobs to get ,i'll explain briefly the courses we study so u have some insider's idea

At first you get a couple of courses all about electricity characteristics and then u delve right to electronics,studying some main components nad some circuits ,then u get the logic of it thru some ANDs, ORs and flipflops, with a couple of theory and appliance > and in parallel u do some different electronic components like power electronics(triac,SCR) ,u get the control of it too , with a course or more about control systems(feedback,digital control,.) and then We step to comm. and comm theory , learning what a signal is,types,analysis and the deep thing (read: Electromagnetic waves,maxwell,..) , and the how-to send a sginal,carrier,CDMA,GSM,,... > grad project(which can be any of the above related ) and then u GRADUATE

and offcourse there are the Math courses that serves scientifc courses ,and several other computer,programing,processor related subjects .

we all know college is just a 5 years small phase of your life that u learn basics for something , u could continue with and OWN or just learn that and put it on the shelf , learn something else .

plus who gives the community a better position,an elite programmer or a not intrested doctor(hi uniball) , what if this doctor uses both (that'd B cool! ) , what matters is he does what he likes and do it right , that what moves us forward , not sticking to boring,worthless,not intresting jobs, in ways to bury your mind and give ur job the least u can do,

so my advise IS , everyone does what he likes and what he see's promising , that way , we dont have lots of people at colleges ,just wasting time and money .

- u'll never enjoy a meal u hate
- u'll never keep pushing ,if u know it wont move .

If u always do what u have always been doing ,u'll always get what u've always been getting (bad marks,low $,..)

and if u dont know where ur going then any road wont get u there

not that college is something VITAL in a mans life , colleges and school are just another commercial project , people used to do self teaching and there they aced ,and in differnet fields ( read : Ibn Sinai,Alkhawarezmy,...)


plus different branches usually interact, Those who design communication softwares , do u think they came across 2 colleges , NO , and similarly it goes,..

I hope this helps .

Dont we all Agree : If everyone does his job well , Everything would just be OK .

Alot of activity in this thread...

Take my advice:
If its programming your after, then go to Computer Science.
CSE is well...more of applications of computer in real life, thus the name computer engineering.
1.Control
Control, in general is the process of maintaining a certain system with certain properties according to a particular input. Determining stability of systems, designing digital controllers to suit your required conditions.

2.Logic Design
(Gates/flipflops/latches/decoders/multiplexers...etc.)

3.Computer Organisation
(How the cpu interacts with memory,I/O,how assembly commands like ADD R1,R2 are implemented,getting to write some of the implementations according to bus organisations(like Motorolla,PDP,PPC),in short this subject really boosted my vision towards the CPU or what is done with the assembly code)

4.Microprocessor
(We learned 8086 assembly,learned how to communicate with the printer for printing some stuff)

5.Operating Systems
(Classic theoretical knowledge of how operating systems operate, Processes/Threads,Deadlocks,Memory Management,Input/Ouptut,File Systems)

6.Mathematics
(5 Courses...probably anything you could think of in mathematics,but its nothing to whats taken in (3oloom)

7.Measurement Systems
(Classical Courses about errors,measurement instruments...etc.)

8. C
The subtitle says it.

9. DataStructures
Efficient programming techniques,ways of storing/seaching/manipulating data.

Thats what I can think of now...theres probably more (oh yes,believe me there is)

CS gets more high level (they dont learn assembly) but they learn alot of languages C/C++/C#/Java/JavaBean/HTML...etc.

Choose wise...and quick.

Maher

FYI, I've never heard of a CS college without atleast one assembly course (usually, with a pre-requisite like Digital logic design).

CS ASU for example. Two of my friends informed me that they didnt take any assembly courses.

Maher

and what is the difference between

علوم الحاسب و نظم المعلومات

hey there..

i am a student in CS of Ain Shams
plz let me clarify some facts about this college

first:
we study assembly in the 3rd stage ..however i have heard some argument that they are going to remove this course ..so it is a matter of decision
(for MaherG: ur friends may be in an earlier year)

second:
we have a simple electronics course in the 1st year , a full Digital Design course in the 2nd year and a computer architecture course in the 3rd year

third:
many other topics are shared between us and comp. eng.
like OS and Data stuctures

fourth:
Computer Science is word means the study of the algorithms and theories related to the software development.. CS faculties all over the world _including Egypt_ have the following tracks:

Basic Science(phsics and math) , Digital Design , Computer Architecture , Algorithms and Data Structures , OS , Artificial intelligence , Parallel and Destributed Programming(a science that studies algorithms for programs running on multiple processors or even multiple computers) , Modeling and Simulation , Computer Networks , Information Sys. , Computer Vision(Image processing , Pattern Recongnition ), Natural Language Processing , Speech Processing , Genetic Programming(a branch of AI) , Expert Systems (another branch of AI) , Compiler theory , Database and File Systems Architecture , Super Computing (operation of super computers) , Software Engineering.


fifth:
CS is really far from hardware even though studying architecture courses

Sixth:
computer science used to be an implicit part of the comp. eng. however the vast growth of such science with thousands of really sophisticated algorithms raised the need for separate study of it

for example ..

one of many branches of the Algorithms course is Data Compression .. students usually have this branch in just one chapter in the Algorithms reference ... in fact u may spend a whole year studying just this branch

i dont know what comp. eng. is but i think there is a great difference , though we have some courses shared..


for MaherG: and concerning that we learn a lot of languages c / c++ / c# / java / java beans / HTML ...

well..i dont know who told u so..we study the first three languages only..the rest is taken in summer courses or may be not taken at all (.....!!!!!!!!!!!)

as u see the faculty is concerned with general algorithms and mathematical formulas related to software development.. it is more general than studying prog. languages

for safrout: the difference between Comp. Science Dept. and Information Systems Dept. is practically small (students in CS faculty just get specialized in the last year only .. to make career opp. greater for graduates from both branches !!!!!!!!)

in this year Comp. Science students have more advanced courses about software algorithms (AI , SuperComputing ...) but Information Systems study supporting courses for building enterprise solutions ( Managment info. Sys. , Marketing info. Sys. ,Internet Security ... )